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I’m going to keep it simple. I just bought and am waiting for delivery of, an Acer notebook from SamsClub. It has similar specs to Apple’s entry-level notebook, for $400 less. I plan on registering Windows and the computer, and whatever else I need to do to get the system up and running. Then, I am going to use Vista’s System Restore/Backup feature whereby you use 2 or 3 DVD+R’s and put it all on them. Then, when I am confident I can do a full system restore, I’ll put in my Linspire CD and let it format the drive and install itself as the only OS. And if that doesn’t work, or I get bored with it, I’ll install Apple’s latest OS and see if it runs on the thing. I am not at all happy that it is so much work, and often more expensive, to find and buy a computer without Windows, but at least there are options. Like people who buy cars and ’tune’ them by altering or even replacing the engine, seats, etc. They still gotta pay Honda, Toyota, whoever, but they can modify it all they want once they own it.

"It seems a bit naive to assume that just because Linux is free it should cost less to put it on a laptop"

Are you serious? Acer PAYS Microsoft for EVERY copy of windows it intsalls. Installing Linux takes the same amount of resources, but does NOT include that licensing fee.

Since all they are really doing anyway is mirroring a hard drive with a working copy, their "cost" to do this would be having on hand an extra hard drive preloaded with Linux.

The ENTIRE point of returning the operating system to the manufacturer is to avoid the M$ tax, to avoid M$ gaining from your transaction.

Full support from Istanbul, Turkey in my tiny blog:

http://tolgabalci.blogspot.com/

Acer had already paid M$ for the software you didn’t want so they couldn’t refund its cost without going broke. What they probably offered you was their profit for installing the software.

dfasdasdasd

There are people who will sell you an OS free laptop in the UK. Novatech is one, but
not the only one. I can’t vouch for the products but they’ve been around awhile and
I have found them a good parts supplier. They also sell you decktops OS free. I live in
hope they, and others will supply with linux installed one day.

Richard.

I think the car analogies are kind of missing the point... if 95% of cars were manufactured with Dunlop tyres as standard, and you wanted Bridgestone tyres - that would be an appropriate analogy!

Microsoft’s actions with OEM distributions are anti-competitive, and designed to keep a hold on their near-monopoly.

I recently bought an Acer laptop, and they refused to sell it without Windows. It’s now happily running Kubuntu, but I’m certainly not happy that my money went to pay Microsoft for something I never wanted.

Try filling out the form BEFORE you ship the laptop to Acer, and have them remove the software after it’s yours, and before they ship it. At that point, all they have to do is ship it to you as they originally would have.

Also send them a second cover letter informing them that if there is any software which requires you to agree with any conditions beyond the legalities of copyright, you are pre-emptively refusing the license and requesting a refund for that software.

The other thing you can do is sue them for tying Windows to the laptop because they are NOT offering to sell you a laptop without Windows, they are selling you a laptop WITH windows, and then forcing you to go through the time and expense of refusing the onerous EULA.

Of course, there’s also the predecessor’s comment that the laptop you’re considering doesn’t support Linux, so you might as well just go buy from Dell HP, or somewhere else that DOES sell a linux-capable laptop.

Maybe buy a DELL? I’m very, very happy with my Inspiron 9400 Core Duo and a ATI x1400.

Works on Kubuntu 6.06 and higher with Beryl.

WOW ...... Kubutu rocks!!!!

The whole point of a Windows refund is to avoid the Microsoft tax if you are not going to run Windows. However, even if an OEM will give you some kind of credit for Windows (whether it turns out a net positive or negative), Microsoft still does not refund anything to the OEM. So in essence Microsoft still gets their cut.

A better solution is to buy the computer with Windows installed. Make sure you buy a system that gives you CDs for reinstallation (I believe the Home versions no longer include recovery CDs). Next, be sure to start up the machine with a distro that will allow you to reformat the disk without ever booting Windows in any form or fashion. Reformat the hard drive, install Linux or BSD or whatever.

Next, sell your recovery CDs on ebay, Google, some BBS, whatever. Since you haven’t agreed to the shrink wrap license and never run the program, you cannot be held to any terms in the license, including the "can’t sell this copy to someone else" provision. Be sure to tell the buyer that the disks are OEM for a particular computer (so they can stay somewhat legit). Make some number of Euros, live happily ever after. Microsoft still gets their cut but you don’t pay them, your OEM of choice doesn’t get screwed, and Microsoft (maybe) loses a sale for the replacement copy of Windows someone bought from you.

Is there some reason you can’t merely format the laptop yourself to remove Windows? ATi drivers do, in fact, exist for Linux. It’s becoming more popular and better developed, especially now with AMD on the team. If you build your own Gentoo install, or something like that, it might be a lot easier to find and set up those drivers than if you’re using Ubuntu, but I will say that I have a friend with an Acer who -is- using Ubuntu on his laptop, and it uses ATi graphics.

Still, just format the drive yourself with the tools on the disc. It’s really not that hard. If you have to get all in a bundle because they won’t sell you the laptop at a discount because they don’t have the bloatware on it paying them, then get a "shell" laptop, CPU, maybe GPU, hard drive, and RAM, and use that. But it’s much more expensive on that route than just sucking it up, buying it with Windows, and formatting it yourself.

Found this from Digg and it’s very interesting! I’m sure an American guy had the exact same problem, so he took digital pictures of everything he received. He then took pictures of his screen as windows was installing for the first time. When it came to accepting the agreement, he simply said NO, took a picture of it, then formatted the machine.

Sending the key, cd, and all the pictures back to the company seemed to do the trick for him. Of course, that’s America... our society is perhaps a bit more rubbish.

Here’s another solution, if you used a credit card.

Ship back all of the CD’s, including Windows Whatever, Norton Whatever, etc. Call your credit card company and issue a chargeback for the FULL RETAIL value of whatever Windows OS, Norton Whatever, etc. that the computer came with. Most credit card companies are in favor of the purchaser with chargeback requests, and the vendor really has to have a super-solid case to win. All you’ve got to do is give your credit card company some ammo.

Include the following items:

1.) The MS Windows EULA, which specifies that you can get a full refund. Highlight that portion (circle it or whatever).
2.) The receipt for your purchase.
3.) Pictures in any computer retail store showing the actual retail prices for these software packages (Windows Whatever, Norton Whatever, etc.).
4.) The entire spec sheet for your computer and what it came with, to prove to the credit card company that these were indeed shipped with the computer (and thus you were charged for them!).
5.) A signed declaration that you have shipped this software back to Acer.
6.) Pictures of the CD’s going into the box you will use ship it back.
7.) A receipt for the shipment of those CD’s back to Acer’s Plymouth Centre.
8.) Proof showing that your package of CD’s was in fact delivered and received by Acer.

Now, *that* will get Acer’s attention, as they are no longer fighting you. They’re now fighting a bank...and Acer *will* lose that one. I’ve done three chargebacks so far, and I’ve won every single one.

--SYG

Good advice there from rysiek there. ATi and Linux != go together

just a wee bit o’ advice

when buying a laptop (or any other box, actually) to home Linux, do *NOT*, under *ANY* circumstances WHATSOEVER buy *ANYTHING* that has "Ati" on it. never.

and I mean *NEVER* never.

Ati has a looong history of failing to get the Linux drivers for any of its products right. you either use an OpenSource driver (and don’t have to use the hardware to it’s full potential), or you use Ati’s binary driver - and experience lockdowns, crashes and alike, and all that after long and painful installation...

for graphic cards go nvidia. definitely. they have decent drivers with quite a working installer that won’t actually b0rk your system - and their binary drivers support AiGLX, so no fscking with XGL and etc.

I myself am after two months(!!) of repeated tries to get an Ati (x700) card to work with beryl... done it, finally, but hope never having to do this again...

oh, and one more thing: here in Poland we have quite a few companies that ship Windows-less laptops, even with Linux pre-installed. Fancy that. :)

cheerio
rysiek