Acer asks for ?50 more for a notebook WITHOUT Windows?
If you want to have a read of this information yourself then please download the Acer information form and see what you deduce. Update - PDF available here.
Acer won't supply a notebook without Windows, but they will remove it and refund you
"Good news" I thought "I can get a laptop with ?50-60 removed from the price - bargain! Unfortunately I was wrong. I'm going to explain what information they provided to me, explain (with examples) what this actually means in terms of money and I'll also provide a link to download the information form.
What Acer told me
Acer informed me that I could indeed get a Laptop without Windows installed - but what would actually happen is:1. I buy a laptop
2. Whoever I buy from will ship me the laptop
3. I fill out the form (attached to this article)
4. I pay for shipping to the Acer repair centre
5. They remove Windows
6. They send me a cheque for *VALUE OF OPERATING SYSTEM*
7. I pay for shipping back to my house
8. I pay the cheque into my bank account
9. Smile
Ok so the smarter readers amongst you will have spluttered at points 4 and 7 where I'm responsible for paying for shipping back to the repair centre - which seems to be in Plymouth. I'll discuss the cost of shipping shortly during my example. But first things first...
*VALUE OF OPERATING SYSTEM*
Acer disclosed the value of the refund as being:
" XP Home, Vista Home Basic and Vista Business = 30 Euro (approximately ?20)
XP Professional, XP Media Centre and Vista Home Premium = 60 Euro (approximately ?40)" which is a slightly odd figure. I'd be amazed if an OEM of XP Home costs the same as an OEM of Vista Home Basic. I'd be even more amazed if they cost ?20. However, it's only when you place it all together in an example that it becomes astonishing.
The Example
To the right we have a sample laptop that I spyed from Ebuyer that costs ?379 (at the time of writing). It weighs roughly 3kg and would be sufficient for my needs. So say I buy it from Ebuyer, I've spent ?379 (I have a pending free delivery token from Ebuyer). I then decide I want to remove Windows from the machine so I can review various Linux distros on it. So I decide to fill out the form and send it back to Acer.
I live in Cambridge and the Acer repair centre seems to be in Plymouth which is around 280 miles away. I've had a look around and the most sensible shipping is ParcelForce. Using their cheapest service (ParcelForce48 - where goods are delivered within 48 hours) and insurance up to a value of ?500 (to cover the cost of the laptop) brings a one way price of ?24.25
So this means that if I was going to get my Windows refund I'd be spending just shy of ?50 purely to get the machine to them and back - just so I could get ?20 for the pleasure of a Windows-free notebook. But what happens if I wanted a more advanced laptop? If it cost more than ?500 then my shipping insurance would bump the overall price up to around ?70.
Maths
Laptop = ?379
Shipping = ?50 (or ?70)
Refund = +?20
Total = ?409 (or ?429)
So I could spend ?379 for a Laptop with Vista Home Basic that I could then uninstall myself and put Ubuntu in it's place (or whatever I was reviewing) OR I could spend around ?410 for a Laptop that I buy, then spend a week or two without, then get back and THEN install Ubuntu on (or whatever). Excuse me if I don't "do the happy dance" with that one Acer.
Good work - spend more, get less
So I could essentially spend ?30-50 more to get an operating system less than I would receive originally? Somehow I think that the open source community aren't going to be taking up this offer anytime soon...
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Alternatively, it will be better to buy a laptop with at least 200 gigabyte of Hard drive so you can do a partition to accommodate various Operating systems.Or a desktop computer with at least two hard drives.
Why? I wont just solely relied on a one particular OS, because of some disadvantages. Like with Unix or Linux there are so many software which are not compatible with the community open sources.
At present I am studying doing a lot of researches and essays, and a use special software to assist me with my writing skill, which the Open office free source that Linux use is not compatible. For simple use the Linux OS is great. No problem with networking, and it is much cheaper for Website Hosting. Security system is safer.
Other softwares use for creativity like most of Adobe products. I still find it best to use the WinOS.
We use computer for various reasons, either just for the sake of having it, like admiring a pop stars, or a valuable instrument to assist us in our daily life. Looking at it careful before deciding to acquire one, will not only help you save money, but also problem in future.
RB/australia
I think it is good for us to pursue Windows refunds on every single system purchased, as you can get it below cost if you do it right. While MS doesn’t directly pay, they pay indirectly. It is their license which forces the manufacturer to refund the money. Thus, by enough of us getting refunds, it will encourage the manufacturers to offer Linux as an option, where they will not have to deal with a refund. The reality is that half an hour of your complaint going through legal will cost the manufacturer far more than any rebate. By driving up transaction costs for Windows computers it changes what manufacturers are willing to pay for Windows.
Are you serious? Acer PAYS Microsoft for EVERY copy of windows it intsalls. Installing Linux takes the same amount of resources, but does NOT include that licensing fee.
Since all they are really doing anyway is mirroring a hard drive with a working copy, their "cost" to do this would be having on hand an extra hard drive preloaded with Linux.
The ENTIRE point of returning the operating system to the manufacturer is to avoid the M$ tax, to avoid M$ gaining from your transaction.
yeah that’s what Acer provided it as. I’ll throw a PDF up shortly.
http://tolgabalci.blogspot.com/
run a certain operating system, and then have the consumer take the time and trouble
to correct this.
On the other hand, though - it is their product. They should be able to bundle it however they please. If you are not happy about the product, go somewhere else. However, if this approach is adopted without letting the Vendors know, then nothing is achieved, is it?
This is called bundling, and IBM lost such a case in the USA a three decades ago when they attempted to link purchases of their mainframe operating system to their mainframe hardware. What Acer is doing is a reversal of IBM’s bundle (IBM required you to purchase their hardware to purchase the operating system; Acer requires you to purchase Windows OSin order to purchase their hardware), but it is the exact same concept which IBM was forced to discontinue.
Acer makes no claim that their hardware will not work if you do not buy windows -- that was the burden of proof in the IBM case as well (IBM’s mainframe OS ran quite nicely on Amdahl, Fujitsu, and Toshiba mainframes, which is why IBM lost -- their hardware was not required for the proper functioning of the OS -- just hardware which performed the same instruction set).
I note that IBM did not have a monopoly on computers, just as Acer does not have a monopoly on x86 laptops. That didn’t stop IBM’s kiester from being hauled into court.
I don’t know British law, but you guys might want to scan the literature for similar bundling cases in your court system. It seems that the act of bundling an unneeded, costly, and undesired component harms the buyer. The EC courts seem to have problems with Microsoft bundling other components into its OS -- perhaps they would have similar problems with Acer’s position. My technique would be to boot windows, refuse the license, and then, when the laptop fails to operate properly for me, send it in for service. Acer could probably get around that by requiring you to accept the windows license as a condition of purchase, but, as is obvious at present, they do not.
My solution was to buy an HP DV9000 series computer; it has two hard drives inside, one of which is unused except for being formatted NTFS. I installed Fedora Core 6 on the second hard drive (just completely blew away its nonexistent content), and Grub happily boots either OS; with Zen, I also have the possibility (which I haven’t used) of running Windows underneath Zen. Of course, my situation is slightly different -- I need Photoshop CS2 in my normal work.
So, Acer IS really giving back the value is pays for a Windows OEM license. What it is not doing is providing you free shipping for a non-standard support task.
Try to be fair and avoid sensationalist titles.
not the only one. I can’t vouch for the products but they’ve been around awhile and
I have found them a good parts supplier. They also sell you decktops OS free. I live in
hope they, and others will supply with linux installed one day.
Richard.
Microsoft’s actions with OEM distributions are anti-competitive, and designed to keep a hold on their near-monopoly.
I recently bought an Acer laptop, and they refused to sell it without Windows. It’s now happily running Kubuntu, but I’m certainly not happy that my money went to pay Microsoft for something I never wanted.
Also send them a second cover letter informing them that if there is any software which requires you to agree with any conditions beyond the legalities of copyright, you are pre-emptively refusing the license and requesting a refund for that software.
The other thing you can do is sue them for tying Windows to the laptop because they are NOT offering to sell you a laptop without Windows, they are selling you a laptop WITH windows, and then forcing you to go through the time and expense of refusing the onerous EULA.
Of course, there’s also the predecessor’s comment that the laptop you’re considering doesn’t support Linux, so you might as well just go buy from Dell HP, or somewhere else that DOES sell a linux-capable laptop.